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Action Frame is a screening day, initiated by artist and curator Simona Da Pozzo. The screenings will take place in Teatro Franco Parenti. The goal is to work on the visibility of performance video, reaching the huge and mixed public of this festival.

Further info HERE and HERE

Conversation between Philip Tonda and Carlos Noronha Feio

“In my work, I like to strip down images of all meanings and show the Real”

 
Photo: Rug (2010) by Carlos Noronha Feio. 

P T: Where are you right now?
C N F: Home, in London.

P T: What are you currently occupied with?
C N F: I’m currently doing some research into transnational practice. – I’m quite excited about that at the moment actually. I will start a PhD in October so I am doing some revising now.

P T: Can you elaborate a bit on this? What will the PhD focusing on?
C N F: The PhD will be focusing on Reportage of conflict as a Transnational arts practice. I’m focusing on the War rugs of Afghanistan, “The Washing the Flag Movement” from Peru, and Arpilleras from Chile. But this is something that I prefer not to get into too many details at this moment. Maybe we can organize a talk in Paris next year…
Also I’ve been working on a new series of works entitled “Plant life in the Pacific World”, and planning a new book to come out at the beginning of next year.

P T: Can you tell us more about this new series “Plant life in the Pacific World”?
C N F: “Plant life in the pacific world” is the title of a book published by the infantry journal press in 1945 – the year of the Trinity site experiment and of the nuclear attacks on Japan. This book is a book of botany, it was aimed at explaining to the fighting forces of the USA the different plants in the pacific ocean. I love this Escher-like image/interpretation that the title of the book implies. The peaceful world and the natural Pacific Ocean world – The technological vs. the natural. Between Paul Virilio and Boris Groys, an idea of the nuclear shadow over today’s society. Those are the concepts that this series is working with.

P T: What’s the subject of the book you are currently working on, and is it based on text or images?
C N F: The book is an artist book with the collages from the series I mentioned above. It will look like a very clean and crisp Botanical book.

P T: Do you have any idea why you work as an artist?
C N F: That is a good question… I also write, curate, collect.

P T: What was the first art work you ever made?
C N F: A drawing of a cat…when I was 5 or so, a friend of my family had a tiny studio in a beautiful rotten palace near Lisbon. For some reason I found myself in her studio without my parents, and she needed to do some work, so she got me some books that teach you how to draw animals, still remember them quite well. My memory is a bit fuzzy, but I bet she really helped me in the main parts, like the drawing of the Cat.  I think I ended up colouring only.

P T: You work as an artist as well as a curator. Can you say something about the relationship between the two occupations?
C N F: I look at them as all part of the same creative urge. Aren’t they both cultural agents? Aren’t they both capable of conceptualising their output in a manner that creates something unique? I always found it strange to speak to artists that do not have the urge to build on the cultural environment around them.

P T: Yes…of course I personally do agree (as I also work with curating as well as art making.)
Tell us about one of your last exhibitions. What did you show? How did you experience the exhibition?
C N F: Well, one of my last shows was in Dorset, UK, in a beautiful Georgian building. It was just a 30 sq meters rug and the sound piece entitled3, 2, 1, 0 A A and away 1, 2…I really enjoyed it.

P T: What’s the last work you finished?
C N F: A collage from the series I mentioned above, and before that a 30 sq meters rug (see the photo on the top of this page) and a sound piece in collaboration with Ergo Phizmiz, a really interesting composer form the U.K.

Photo: Collage from the series Plant life in the Pacific World (2010) by Carlos Noronha Feio

P T: What would be the perfect place to exhibit? If anything and anywhere would be possible?
C N F: I would love to do a show in Gaza and one in Tel Aviv at the same time, with the opening event taking place at the exact same hour, showing the same work in both places. As the opening progressed I would be zig zaging across the border with some locals, transmitting it to both spaces.

P T: Why Gaza and Tel Aviv? Please tell us more about this motivation / your relation to this specific area.
C N F: In my work, I like to strip down images of all meanings and show the Real. I like to bring down the meaning into the pure form of an action, a movement, something that can then be built upon.
Gaza and Tel Aviv are part of an area where there are so many build ideas, interests and identities that they are not being able to go beyond them into the real of the human as a universal equal.
I do find extremely interesting areas of conflict, the idea for the show above speaks a lot about my believes in equality, in a border-less land.

P T: What do the surroundings mean to you in relation to your art practice? (You did a project in Paris once. Can you say something about your experiences with the different places, and how the surroundings influence you?)
C N F: Paris was great, I really enjoyed the show “Snow wall, will you show us the way to restart it all?” at TPTP. And as you know, it couldn’t have happened without the participation of several great artists, local and not local. I enjoyed the project in part because it contained the risk of becoming a total disaster: It was so dependent on other people admitting that not everything is perfect.

I believe that the point that any situation can promote a creative outcome (even if resulting in something that proved to have failed before) was well tested in the show.

See a video from the project here: MIDNIGHT MEETING, TPTP, PARIS 2010

I would love to show again in France soon. At the moment, I am planning a show in Lisbon, a show for 2012 in my London gallery (IMT Gallery) and one for my Portuguese gallery (Galeria Nuno Centeno), a book, an artist book, and am, as I said before, really keen to start the PhD.

-

Thank you Carlos!

See more about Carlos Noronha Feio’s artwork HERE

You can look at any of the questions you may like, there’s no need to necessarily read them in the following order:

1.

ENG: (Scroll down for French)

Christophe Beauregard asks:

How did you choose the portraits among those millions of personal profiles to be found on the Internet? Were you looking for a special type of person ? Only males? Females?

Philip Tonda:
In the beginning I was just looking around on a few dating forums, puzzled by some of the profiles and the way people chose to present themselves. I did several visuals experiments before coming to a certain visual style that I felt worked the best.

I was choosing the images entirely based on intuition…I was attracted by the chosen profiles for many various reasons. Erotically, aesthetically, because they were extreme/chocking, sometimes even horrible, or because they were just nice. So the work is based on profiles of many different characters – people who show themselves in many different ways.

There was only one common indicator: They were all being defined as “male” on the forum that they were found in..I actually do not like to define people as either men or women (so in a sense it’s strange that I made this choice.) I personally don’t like these simple categories.

The dating forums have various definition possibilities based upon “the kind of man” you are/the sexuality..Such as gay man, bi man or heterosexual man. But you nearly always need to define WHAT you are and WHAT you seek…I find that interesting. -When do you make the choice of what you are, and what are the limits of the ability to make a choice?

I’m currently planning a next work which is based on how people are presenting themselves in forums for various people fitting into the category “women”.

FR:

Christophe Beauregard demande:

Comment as-tu choisi ces portraits? Entre tout ces millions de profiles que l’on peut trouver sur Internet, as-tu cherché un certain type de personnes? Seulement des hommes? Femmes?

Philip Tonda:
Au début je regardais juste sur quelques sites de rencontres et j’étais troublé par quelque profiles et la façon dont les gens se présentaient.   Le choix des images était entièrement basé sur mon intuition…j’étais attiré par les profiles pour plusieurs raisons différentes. Soit a cause d’un certain érotisme, ou une esthétique, parce que qu’ils étaient extrêmes, choquants, parfois même horribles, ou simplement car ils étaient sympathiques.  La série est ainsi basée sur des profiles de caractères variés de gens qui se présentent de nombreuses manières différentes.

Il y avait un seul point commun : ils se sont tous définit comme étant de sexe “mâle” sur le forum ou ils ont été trouvés. Moi personnellement, je n’aime pas définir les gens soit comme homme soit comme femme (donc, dans un sens, mon choix est étrange). Je n’aime pas ces catégories simplistes.   Les forums de rencontres offrent plusieurs possibilités concernant le sort d’Homme qui est le nôtre. L’orientation sexuelle va être « homme gay », « homme bisexuel » et « homme hétérosexuel », etc. mais on est presque toujours contraint de définir CE QUE l’on EST et CE QUE l’on CHERCHE..Je trouve ça intéressant… Quand est-ce qu’on choisit ce que l’on est, et quelles sont les limites à notre capacité de faire ce choix?

En ce moment je prépare un projet photographique qui sera basé sur la catégorie “femme”.

***

2.

ENG: (Scroll down for French)

Christophe Beauregard asks:

Why choosing this blurring effect rather than accurate focus? Or just copying and pasting it on your computer office?

Philip Tonda:
To copy/paste and show the photos collected from the internet, would be the same as as painter showing her/his model on an exhibition instead of showing the painting that s/he made.

About the blurriness..Why not? There are already so many clear, sparkling, “right-in-your-face” images out there!

Photography is seen as a way to capture reality at a certain moment. That is (despite the experimental and abstract photo works that have been created over the years) one of its main qualities. I like to play with that notion of depicting reality..by making photos that are abstract and representational at the same time..something that makes you aware of the “lawyer” between the photographed subject and you, the viewer.

This choice of aesthetic (the blurriness of the images) is directly connected to the theme of ‘identity representation’ which is something that has always interested me.

More on this: It has always puzzled me when someone told me “I know who I am” or “I know what I want”. This, of course, is  a typical expression of this individualized time that we’re living in. But I think that each individual has many more possibilities, and I don’t think you can know yourself or another person 100 percent.

There are many ways of experiencing a person…You do not always need to know her job or his age…Sometimes it could be enough to look openly on the other person.or listening to the voice..Or to speak about something that is relevant at the moment, whatever that may be, instead of always coming up with the same set of introduction-questions. There are various ways of “seeing someone clearly”, other than having to fit the person into the pre-shaped systems and images we already have on our mind..

On the Internet this clash between the expressed and experienced identity and the “actual identity” of a person is set on the edge to the greatest extend. Many people are very explicit in expressing their identity, but in reality you may have no idea about who the person is and what s/he feels…

*

The blurriness thus holds several references: It obviously refers to the idea of not knowing the person behind the picture, but also to the idea of the identity in general not necessarily being clear or easy to understand. Furthermore, the blurriness contains a direct reference to the idea of looking on a computer screen: If you continuously look at the same distance all the time, such as on a screen, your sight gets focused on this specific distance – your eyes get less flexible and are not able to focus on things that are placed at other distances. This can also be seen as a metaphor for perception in general.

FR:

Christophe Beauregard demande:

Pourquoi avoir choisi cet effet de flou au lieu de juste copier/coller ces images sur le bureau de ton ordinateur?

Philip Tonda:
De copier/coller et ensuite exposer ces images trouvées sur Internet serait la même chose, un peu comme si un peintre présentait son modèle à une exposition au lieu d’exposer le tableau qu’il a fait.

En ce qui concerne l’effet de flou…Pourquoi pas? Il y a déjà tellement d’images qui sont nettes !

La photographie est considérée comme un moyen de capturer la réalité a un certain moment. J’aime jouer avec cette notion de la photographie comme une documentation de la réalité en créant quelque chose qui est a la fois abstrait et représentatif…Quelque chose qui fait prendre conscience des liens entre le sujet pris en photo et toi, le spectateur.

Ce choix d’esthétique (l’effet flou) est directement lié à la thématique de la représentation de l’identité, qui m’a toujours intéressé.

***

3.

ENG: (Scroll down for French)

Joël Riff asks:

I am just discovering an album of music named In Ghost Colours. This title fits with my approach of your series of photographs, something coming from another world where personalities disappear behind the fragile shot of their face. Does your work mean that the Net is not able to share clear pictures, but only colored ghosts? Could the Internet only be the place of the Blur?

Philip Tonda:
No. The internet can be many things. Of course the internet has changed our experience of reality to a certain extend. It has opened new ways of “being”, and new ways of experiencing space. The internet is very direct and very unclear at the same time. It enables us to discover new spaces and worlds..however, by your own interests, you limit your search..which means that it’s rather unlikely that you’ll get somewhere completely new on your online travel.

My photo project is made with equal portions of critical attitude and honor to the internet.

Fr:

Joël Riff demande:

Je découvre à l’instant un album de musique intitulé In Ghost Colours. Ce titre traduit bien mon approche de ta série de photographies, quelque chose qui viendrait d’un autre monde, où les personnalités disparaissent derrière le cliché fragile de leur visage. Ton travail insinue-t-il que le Net n’est pas capable de transmettre des images sincères, mais seulement des fantômes colorés ? Internet ne peut-il être que le lieu du flou ?

Philip Tonda:
Non. Internet peut être beaucoup de choses à la fois. Bien sur, Internet a d’une certaine façon changé notre expérience de la réalité. Il a ouvert différentes facons “d’être” et différentes manières d’expérimenter l’espace. Internet est à la fois très direct et très vaste. Cela nous permet de découvrir de nouveaux espaces, de nouveaux mots..cependant, nous sommes guidés par nos propres intérêts, on limite donc nos recherches, ce qui signifie qu’il est plutôt peu probable de tomber sur quelque chose de réellement nouveau.

Mon projet photographique est de créer une certaine égalité entre une attitude critique et un hommage vis à vis des relations sur internet.

***

4.

ENG: (Scroll down for French)

Joël Riff asks:

With these portraits that you re-plunged into anonymity, you realize a sort of archive of different shapes of the Unknown. Of course, this idea of collection puzzles me. How will you present us this whole quantity ? How will you pass from one picture to the next ?

Philip Tonda:
It is very difficult to present photography on 3 screens on a building! Originally the photos are to be printed and hung so that the viewer can see them from long distance as well as from close distance.

For this exhibition, I chose to deal with 3 different times on each screen: The timing of the lower screen (1st floor) corresponds the amount of time I generally use on internet profiles that only interested me a bit, the second timing (on the second floor) corresponds with the amount of time i use on profiles that i find a bit interesting, and the third screen (on top) corresponds with the amount of time that i use when there’s a profile that really triggers me.

These times are not directly related to the shown photos, they are just general measurements adapted to the way of showing the work.

FR:

Joël Riff demande:

Avec ces portraits que tu as replongé dans l’anonymat, tu réalises une sorte d’archive des différentes formes de l’inconnu. Évidemment, cette notion de collection m’interroge. Comment nous présenteras-tu toute cette quantité ? Quels sont tes critères pour organiser le défilement des images ?

Philip Tonda:
C’est très difficile de présenter un projet photographique sur 3 écrans fixés sur un bâtiment! Normalement les photos doivent être imprimées et suspendus de façon a ce que le spectateur puisse les voir de longue distance ainsi qu’ à proximité.

Pour cette exposition, j’ai choisi de prendre 3 “temps” différents sur chaque écrans : Le temps de l’écran inférieur (1er étage) correspond au temps que j’utilise pour regarder des profils internet qui m’intéressent juste un petit peu, le deuxième temps (sur le deuxième étage) correspond à la quantité de temps que j’utilise sur les profils que je trouve quand même un peu intéressant, et le troisième écran (en haut) correspond à la quantité de temps que j’utilise quand il ya un profil qui je trouve encore plus intéressant.

***

5.

ENG: (Scroll down for French)

Charlotte Seidel asks:

Did you define a certain (technical) rule for yourself while modifying the images (like always using the same percentage of filters – soft-focus, saturation of the color etc), somehow an automatization of the process of manipulation, making it also anonymous?

Philip Tonda:
I made each photo by minimizing the size of the chosen internet-photo, and then putting the camera lens a little too closely to a part of this photo. I made several attempts with each one, in order to come to the satisfying result. I have not changed anything in photoshop. The process was very intimate and I felt very connected to each of the chosen photos. So there is no anonymous automatization in the way i worked, on the contrary, through doing the work, I got a more intimate relation with each of the original photos.

FR:

Charlotte Seidel demande:

Est-ce que tu as définie une règle (technique) dans ton processus de la modification numérique des images (p.ex. utiliser le même pourcentage pour les filtres – flouter, saturation des couleurs etc.)? Je pense à une automatisation de la démarche de manipulation, la rendant anonyme d’une certaine façon?

P T:

J’ai sélectionné ces photos sur internet et diminué leur taille, puis je les ai (re)photographiés volontairement de trop près. J’ai fait différents essais jusqu’à l’obtention de résultats satisfaisants. Je n’ai rien modifié avec Photoshop.

Le processus était très intime et je me suis senti connecté avec chacune d’entre elles Il n’y a donc pas eu de procédé automatique d’anonymat dans ma façon de travailler, bien au contraire, j’ai développé une relation unique et personnelle avec chaque photo que j’ai choisi.

***

6.

ENG: (Scroll down for French)

Charlotte Seidel asks:

Responding to a previous question you are talking about the blurriness of the space outside a computer screen after focussing on it for a longer time. I’m interested in the distance (spatial and emotional) the spectator takes in the different given situations: between the computer screen (often a somehow private space) showing the image of a person and the viewer AND between your blurred images showed on screens in a public space and the viewer.

Did this shifting of private/public space and sharpness/blurriness influence you in the way of presenting the works and what does it mean to you? Did you have other ideas or wishes how to show your images?

P T:

Originally, the photos are to be printed. I like to threat it in a rather classical way as to emphasize the idea of photography and thereby question the medium..Is this “real photography” one could ask, since what i did was to re-photograph found images. With classical prints, people can also go really close to the image which may ad something to the experience.

However, the way of presenting them on the screens of Maison des Ensembles also fits very well to the project. The distance between the screened images and the viewer is big and this may emphasize the distance between the subjects and the viewers. However, ideally it would work best if the viewers had the possibility of coming close to the photo. In order to be able to experience it in several different ways. And that is how it will be in other exhibition circumstances, when it’s printed.

FR:

Charlotte Seidel demande:

En répondant à une question antérieure tu parles du flou que prend l’espace en dehors de l’écran d’ordinateur après l’avoir regardé pendant longtemps. Je m’intéresse à la distance (spatiale et émotionnelle) que le spectateur prend dans les situations diverses données : entre l’écran de l’ordinateur (souvent une sorte d’espace privé) avec l’image d’une personne et le spectateur ET entre tes images floues sur des écrans dans un espace public et le spectateur.

Est-ce que cette mutation de l’espace privé/public et de la netteté/le floue t’a influencé dans ta question sur comment présenter les œuvres et qu’est-ce que cela signifie pour toi? Est-ce que tu as pensé à d’autres mode de présentation ?

Philip Tonda:
Normalement les photos devraient être imprimées. Je préfère traiter cette série photographique d’une manière plutôt classique qui accentue l’idée de la photographie et mettrait en question le médium…Est-ce de la “vraie photographie” pourrait-on demander. Vu ce que j’ai fait il s’agissait plutôt de reprendre en photo des images trouvées. Des photos imprimées auraient permis aux spectateurs de s’approcher très prés des images ce qui aurait pu ajouter quelques chose a l’expérience elle-même.   Pourtant, la façon dont elles sont présentées a la Maison des Ensembles, sur des écrans au mur, marche très bien aussi concernant le projet. La distance entre les images projetées et le spectateur est grande et cela pourrait souligner la distance entre les sujets et les spectateurs. Néanmoins l’idéal serait que les spectateurs puissent s’approcher de la photo.

***

7.

ENG: (Scroll down for French)

Charlotte Seidel asks:

Should the fact that the exhibition can only be seen at night time simulate a sort of privacy/private space, camouflaging the surrounding outside space with the help of darkness?

Philip Tonda:
I find it poetic that the images are there only at night, as if they’re watching into the Parisian night. It also ads an element of privacy to my exhibition, similar to the privacy -or even hiding- that can take place while dating online. I like that you can only see my photo series at the same time as most of the internet-dating takes place: At night.

FR:

Charlotte Seidel demande:

Est-ce que le fait que l’exposition soit uniquement visible le soir simule une sorte d’intimité/espace privé, en camouflant l’espace environnant avec l’aide de l’obscurité nocturne ?

Philip Tonda:
Le fait que les images ne soit visibles que la nuit, comme si elles regardaient la nuit parisienne, je trouve cela assez poétique. Cela ajoute, en plus, un élément d’espace privé à mon exposition qui ressemble à celui sur Internet. J’aime l’idée que l’on puisse voir les photos en même temps que la plupart des rencontres sur Internet se déroulent – c’est-a-dire pendant la nuit.

***

8.

ENG: (Scroll down for French)

Christophe Beauregard asks:

Although your series gives a very formal idea of photography, and thus tends to be abstract, I’m more troubled by this visual sensation :

One’s eyes and brain is longing to focus on these seemingly pictures of men, in order to find some pleasure and excitement of one’s mind. Yet without any success the pictures stay blurred. I think there’s some kind of eroticism in this comings and goings of the eyes, isn’t there.

Philip Tonda:
Yes, I agree and am happy you think so! I don’t think I can say it any better than you just did!

It’s not my main aim to make erotic pictures, but eroticism is surely part of it. The whole project is based on the erotic interaction between people longing to meet each other, while, in the given situations, not being able to see or feel each other in the physical world.

FR:

Christophe Beauregard demande:

Bien que cette série soit très formelle et que ces photographies tendent vers des abstractions, je suis plus troublé par cette sensation visuelle :

Nos yeux et notre esprit cherchent à faire la mise au point sur ces images qui semblent représenter des hommes, à trouver du plaisir et de l’excitation dans ces représentations mais sans succès,  car les photographies reste floues. N’y a-t- il pas quelque chose d’érotique dans ce “va et vient” ?

Philip Tonda:
Oui, je suis d’accord!

Je ne pense pas pouvoir l’expliquer mieux que toi.

Ce n’est pas mon objectif principal de faire des photos érotiques, mais l’érotisme en fait sûrement partie. Tout le projet est basée sur l’interaction : le désir érotique entre les gens de se rencontrer tandis que, une fois dans les situations prévues, on n’est pas en mesure de voir ou de se sentir les uns et les autres dans le monde « physique ».

***

9.

ENG: (Scroll down for French)

Joël Riff asks:

You picked these pictures from dating websites, and the title of your series confirms this gallant dimension. Despite the treatment of these portraits to dilute the indecency, their sensuality remains tangible. Can the blur reduce the obscene?

Philip Tonda:
To talk about the images as photographs that have gone though a treatment is not entirely correct, except if you mean in the same that any given reality (also the 3 dimensional reality we live in) has gone though a treatment when being presented on photograph:

The photos are based on the internet photos, but they are not at all the same images as they found ones. It’s important to make this distinction. (See question 5 and as well as question 2)

If the blur can reduce the obscene? Obviously yes.

When watching a lot of profiles quickly after each other, being erotically motivated, the gaze becomes very directed and stops easily on the surface. This way of viewing other people relates to the idea of objectifying human beings, and to the “colonizing gaze”.

Being attracted, impressed, aroused and disguised at the same time, I had to deal with these images in some way. In order to get something meaningful out of them..so i transformed them into images that have a different, aesthetic value, images that suggest, in their beauty and blurriness, that there often is a screen between our eyes when we look at each other.

FR:

Joël Riff demande:

Ces images ont été cueillies sur des sites de rencontre, et le titre de la série confirme cette dimension galante propre à l’entrevue. Malgré le traitement infligé à ces portraits pour en diluer l’indécence, leur charge sensuelle reste tangible. Le flou peut-il atténuer l’obscène?

Philip Tonda:

On ne peut pas parler de ces photos comme des images ayant subi un traitement sauf si on admet que toute réalité (dont celle en 3 dimensions dans laquelle nous vivons) est également passée par ce traitement lorsqu’elle est présentée sur une photo.

Même si ma série de photos est basée sur des images trouvées sur internet, elles ne sont pas du tout les mêmes que celles d’origine. Il est important de faire cette distinction. (Voir la question n°5 et n°2)

Est ce que le flou peut atténuer l’obscène? Evidemment oui.

Quand on regarde un grand nombre de profils rapidement l’un après l’autre, tout en étant érotiquement éveillé, le regard devient très dirigé et s’arrête facilement à la surface. Cette façon de voir d’autres personnes se rapporte à l’idée d’objectiver les êtres humains.

Être attiré, impressionné, et déguisé en même temps, j’avait besoin de faire face à ces images d’une certaine façon. Afin de sortir quelque chose de significatif entre eux.. Alors je les ai transformés en images d’une autre valeur esthétique, des images qui suggèrent, dans leur beauté et leur flou, qu’il y a souvent un écran entre nos yeux lorsque nous nous regardons les uns les autres.

A conservation between Philip Tonda and the Belgium based artist Nathalie Vanheule. She spent half a year working in Paris where she experienced the locals lack of colour-use which influenced her work in a direct way. She’s now back in Kortijk, Belgium, where she, 9 months pregnant, continues her work with high energy.

Photo: Nathalie Vanheule performaing at her latest exhibition, the solo show “Appocalyps Twins”

P T: What are you currently occupied with?

N V: I am organising a group show, ‘Paradise Lost Paradise’, a Group show in Public space this summer. The city of Kortrijk pointed me as a curator and artist. It’ll be a show that touches on our desire for perfection.. Perfect love, perfect happiness, perfect surroundings…but also shows the  darkness, the loss and the destruction…

P T: What excites you?

N V: This project, ‘Paradise Lost Paradise’ excites me very much. It’s nice to have an opportunity to show you work and involve nice and interesting artists from over the world in the same project. It gives a warm feeling. You know that you are busy with something good, strong and promising. It gives a feeling of luck, anxiety and excitement at the same time.

Something else that excites me is to become a mother…In 10 days I will give birth to a son… It will be the biggest and longest project in my life!

-

Narcicism, hysteria and a need to share with people

P T: Do you have any idea why you work as an artist?

N V: When I was an art student, I made a thesis on this topic, in collaboration with the local university and the professor of psychology and psychoanalyze… It ended up on a 240 pages thesis, including drawings…

I interviewed 14 artists, from different backgrounds to see which motivations they had in order to understand my own…I discovered that most artists are narcissistic and/or hysteric in a non-strict and non-dangerous way…

It’s the psychological background containing narcissism and hysteria as well as the personal mood that gives you the most energy to do something as illogical and unrealistic as practising art.

It is a drive to make art, that is born inside of me. If you take it from me, all the colour would faint inside…It is my air to breath.

I want to touch the people with my art and move them somehow…by a picture, a message, an enlargement of their view on the world. I want to share with people.

-

..When a ‘creation’ becomes an ‘art work’..

P T: What was the first art work you ever made?

This is a hard one…when is a creation a piece of art, Philip?

I started showing my work in galleries at the age of seventeen…before, at the age of fourteen my paintings were winning art prices in the region where I grew up…

But for me, my first art work was the short movie entitled ‘La Solexia’. I made it while I was in art school, during the class of the Flemish movie director Danny Deprez…He and the other teacher Kim Beirnaert, who taught me experimental typography, enlarged my world and made me think wider…like artists do… Also the courses of Edith Doove moved me and made me really focus and rethink my art…

Photo: Video still from the short movie “La Solexia” by Nathalie Vanheule. She considers it the first artwork she ever made.

P T: You’re right, it can be difficult to define when something is a work of art..It depends on how you decide to look at it.

In any case, I like that you respond to this question with various answers, ending with telling your own definition of it..It’s interesting that your own definition of your first art work is not necessarily the same as what some other people think..

In my own case, I’ve always been drawing as a child, but i feel that one of the first artistic pieces i made was a photo much later.

I generally find it interesting that there are many points of view on the same thing, while there are often some kind of rules that the society adopts and that people start taking forgiven.. When you think about things, you may have a different definition.

But please tell me, how could you win art prices when you were 14 and participate in exhibitions when you were 17? That’s very early…

N V: Thank u for your response to my answer…I feel a recognition in what you say… I was also always drawing from the moment I could hold a pencil in my hand… As a child and later, my drawings and paintings were my escape… When I was drawing, it felt very good and also somehow therapeutically.. I think that I needed to draw in order to stay in balance with myself…

When I was very young I won some art prices with my drawings and paintings .The press took it quite serious and I´ve got some nice newspaper interviews too…but it was very local also, but as a young adolescent this is your small world… I was engaged from that time as the youngest artist in exhibitions and also in a gallery…

P T: And why where the works you made back then not as much to be defined as works as the short movie you made later on in art school?

At the age of 18 something really dramatic happened in my life and I needed to start over. It felt like the fundaments that my personality were build on collapsed… Perhaps my work before the age of 21 was already art, perhaps not. Perhaps I don’t consider that early work as art, because I feel this is a period that is closed for me…like that part of me, with my personality at that time, died….

If people come to my fathers house where you can see those huge paintings I’ve made, they see a similarity with my work now, only back then it was much darker and more narrative… perhaps there were less layers than in my work now.

P T: What is the last work you finished?

N V: A drawing about apocalypse twins for my solo show in Antwerp…

Photo: “Appocalyps Twins” by Nathalie Vanheule.

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Art work in an underground night club

P T: Tell us about one of your last exhibitions. What did you show? How did you experience the exhibition?

N V: My last exhibition was my solo show entitled ‘Some Black Reflection’ at Second Room in Antwerp. It was the most difficult space I ever got to exhibit my work as it was very small and quite trashed, but good by name and energy. The floor and the whole space looked like a place where they sell meat or something…like you could still smell the meat or feel the bread where the meat should fit in…

I showed drawings, sculptures and I made a special performance for that evening… I had big expectations for the performance…it was OK, I felt happy…

But 2 weeks later, I was invited to show that same performance in a pop up underground club in Antwerp. I didn’t had much expectations of that evening, and it was very new to show a performance in this kind of non-gallery setting.. but somehow, it turned out to be one of my strongest experiences! The public went totally crazy!! and everything fitted just perfect…It couldn’t go better. The public was very interested and focused and totally into it, although this felt strange and absurd…  It was a really fantastic and energetic experience!

P T: Interesting! This makes me think of a guy called Jørgen Callesen who runs a space called Warehouse 9 in Copenhagen. (You might like this space, by the way.) Well, anyway, he also told me that it’s important for him to perform not only in galleries, but also in other places such as night clubs because of the different energies it gives. He is not interested in this strict definition of where to show the work, that many artists probably have. Different venues have different energies, and sometimes it can be interesting to have more direct responses which you find easier outside the “white cube”..This leads perfectly to the next question..

What would be the perfect place to exhibit? If anything and anywhere would be possible?

N V: You’re right. It is good from time to time to show your work in non gallery atmospheres. The reaction of the public is more pure and honest. The energy is totally different!

So the perfect place doesn’t exist, I am realising now… But I am dreaming of showing my work more in museums with a lot of soul and possibilities, like the Wiels in Brussels, Palais de Tokyo in Paris or PS1 in New York. Can some one arrange that for me?;)

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‘It was as if France was screaming for black..’

P T: What do the surroundings mean to you in relation to your art practise? (You spent some time working in Paris for a period, and now you’re back in Belgium.. You also worked in other cities i believe..) Can you say something about your experiences with the different places, and how the surroundings influence you?

N V: When I stayed in Paris for half a year, the surroundings made a big influence on me.

Also to be away from your natural habitat or surroundings played a huge part. I had to break free from my normal way of thinking, of acting, of finding or ordering the things in my head…

Differences always cost energy and a certain fear, even though the difference is something good in your life. I had to undo myself from my insecurity….and start all over again, like starting on a fresh page. My artwork and my personality needed this, also when it isn’t pleasant in the beginning..To start all over in a way brings first the anxiety, than the liberation and the energy!

I realised that French artists think totally different. The first reaction is to adapt, to be like one of them, because I felt lonely or insecure. I wanted to fit in. For instance, the first thing I noticed is that everybody wears black, blue or grey…no heavy colours are allowed… so automatically, without noticing, you start wearing more black…But luckily, after some days, you think “Fuck You! I will be myself and think and dress, and spirit myself, like I am… I will not try to be French, but I will open myself for them and learn from them, without trying  to be one of them…”

 Photo: Nathalie Vanheules atelier in Paris, 2010. 

French art was refreshing and different for me, and some of the French artists told me that I was that for them too. So this exchange, this multicultural cross over, makes it wider and interesting…Stay who you are and believe in yourself, no matter how different you are…and they will end up liking you more or have more respect for you. I stayed myself, but you’re always influenced somehow, even though you try to deny it…

So my stay in France influenced me, not only personal but also in my work, because it was the first time, I introduced the colour black in my work. It was as if France was screaming for black…

P T: Do you have a question to pose the readers?

N V: If you could change something in your life, what would that be?

Do you believe that there exist somehow a Paradise? What does that mean for you?

-

Thank you Nathalie!

To get to know more about Nathalie Vanheule and her work, see her WEB PAGE .

Photo from Giorgio Sadottis performance FLOWER SSNAKE (spells like tree spirit). Photo by Tate Britain. 

What are you currently occupied with?
Several things occupy my time at the moment which is normal for me. Preeminently I am working on building a monster from various body part’s that I have asked other artist’s to author. It is proving a complex house to build as each part has it’s own material character, this is what I expected and will I hope make the project worth doing, but it is still non the less a problem to solve.

What excites you?
Everything excites me including the question !

What was the last work you finished?
Last night. I am cutting circular holes into book page photographs of naked figures. The size of the circles are determined by placing the compass in the navel and moving outwards until the first nipple is reached. Once the circle is cut and removed it creates a new image.

Tell us about one of your last exhibitions.
My last exhibition FLOWER SSNAKE (spells like tree spirit) (see photo above) recently finished at Tate Britain London. I showed a 9 meter high Norwegian Spruce tree with a large black leather bullwhip curled up at it’s base. On the 12th night of Christmas (January 5th) a professional whip cracker came into the gallery and drove the tree back to the forest using her whips. For me the experience was great !

That sounds spectacular! It looks like she’s dancing?
It wasn’t really a dance just her way of moving very graceful and animal like around her prey.

Please tell a bit about the background of the piece:
Tate Britain have invited artist’s for the past 23 years to dress or design a Christmas tree that they can exhibit during the festive period.
So I had no choice as to what type of tree …….. it needed to reference Christmas. I felt that the undressed/naked tree was a more honest and elegant choice (closest to how the tree looked in it’s natural habitat), also it allowed the viewer to imagine it decorated if necessary. The idea that the tree had potential to be different to how it was presented was important to me.
I could have decorated it but chose not to, this deciding against doing something I find very creative despite it’s seemingly negative connotation. The same attitude of negativity  would seem to be associated with the action of whipping. I have made other works with the same whip cracker before and by literally physically undressing even more an already conceptually undressed tree, she breaks the spells we are under………. the power of her acoustic tool for me is like a reminder of the real, of the moment that we are in……… it is more than we know. She is a translator of sorts moving from one language to another helping to realize the potential of things.

The whipping was about the gesture, the potential of trying to drive out the spell of tree spirit, not an action that could possibly avoid failure ……. attempting to illustrate the impossible, the futile, the redundant and possibly disinterested.

When the whip cracked the pine needles did fall and an idea became a reality.

The idea of her driving the tree back was what excited me, not the reality as of course it would be impossible for her to do.

The impossibility of her attempt was what interested me, I am often intrigued by the notion of failure and the allure of it.

To fail is far more interesting than succeeding don’t you agree ? To miss one’s target is by far superior to hitting it.

Well.. I agree that failed attempts can often be interesting (but i don’t think it’s per definition more interesting than succeeding…it really depends on the situation.) In either case, in all matters, in art making as in life, things often do not turn out exactly as planned, and that is the magic of life (for better and for worse) and often creates much better results than planned.

One final question: What would be the perfect place to exhibit? If anything and anywhere would be possible?
Anything and anywhere are possible so the perfect place to exhibit is here.

.. Where? ..’here’ ?
‘Here’  is where you are when you read the sentence …….’Here’ to the reader but also an imagined ‘here’ as the one where I was when I wrote the answer to your question.

Thank you for your time  Giorgio!

—

See more about Giorgio Sadotti’s christmas three at Tate Britain HERE

The conversations will be shown here on the front page and renewed regularly.

INTERVIEW:
If you are interested in reading the conversation between Philip Tonda and Christophe Beauregard that took place on the day of the exhibition opening, then you can find it HERE

Nowadays museums in the Western hemisphere show more and more non-Western contemporary art. It would seem that Western predominance in art history is gradually eroding, and curators, critics and institutions are more and more interested in Asian, Latin American, East European art scenes.

However, some artists complain about what is expected from them in terms of art. They often feel there is a recipe for “regional art” – you need to blend some exotic local tradition or curiosity with a contemporary art form, in order to produce an object that is capable of evolving in the international art scene. For those reasons, sometimes such artists are unwilling to participate in exhibitions focused on a specific geographical zone.

On the other hand, is the answer to be found in a globalized, disconnected, rootless art, on par with anything created in art schools in London, New York, Paris?

Monday 26th of July 2010. By Charlotte Seidel, Visual artist and curator based in Paris:

I feel this question involves different aspects in the production and

presentation of art pieces, its documentation, also if artworks could have a
“date of expiry”.
Of course you always have an invisible part in each work – the personal
approach and story of the artist and the thoughts of the spectator
confronted to it – like a silent dialogue.
Some works are shown inside of a certain context, sometimes they are not
even noticed by anyone – staying more or less invisible (like for example
the interventions/performances of Jiří Kovanda). Only later, in the
exhibition, the documentation makes them ‘public’ and visible for the art
world. Is now the documentation the artwork, as the original doesn’t exist
anymore?
Another example is the exhibition ‘VIDES’ (VOIDS) at Centre Pompidou that
took place last year. The spaces were empty with short texts about works
dealing with void. They were realized in different locations and times,
within distinct backgrounds. In this case I think the exhibition didn’t take
place inside of the spaces, but in the language, the discussions of the
visitors, the words on the wall and inside of the catalogue). Finally the
visitor had to imagine himself the original context of each piece, detached
from the spaces of Centre Pompidou. Somehow it became an immaterial
exhibition.
One more great example: “With less to look at, there’s more to think about.”
That was the motto Bernard Brunon gave to his company “That’s Painting
Productions” some twenty years ago, when his work as a house painter became
his activity as an artist.
These works (among others) seem somehow lost, detached – and floating in the
(invisible) space. Does it make artworks more interesting, boring or
completely senseless? Do they only exist at the moment they are shown in the
original context?

Question on Monday 7th of June. By Philip Tonda.

While many kinds of art exist, we in the western artworld are somewhat similar educated in seeing what can be defined as contemporary art and what can not.

However, it is becoming more and more normal to see pieces in contemporary exhibitions which were not initially categorized as contemporary art pieces. When fitting into the curatorial context in a museum of contemporary art, you might find commercial movies, pieces of design, live music performances, plastic kitch-objects as well as “tribal art” or other art made in “foreign cultures”.
While I celebrate this curatorial way of defining art as culture- and context-related research (but also, very importantly a space for visual reflection and emotions) and its fluid way of defining what art can be, what worries me is that, in possibly valuing the overall theme higher than the individual works, it directs our gaze, and could be an obstacle for looking openly at something. This is mainly a concern in the subject of showing art from a “different culture”.
I have many times been irritated by seeing works of “exotic art” in exhibitions dealing especially with colonisation as a theme. By putting the work in a post colonial exhibition context, it is not removing our gaze of looking at it in a colonial way -as art made by ‘the other”.
I’m aware that it’s still too early for it, and that we need such above mentioned exhibitions as to get further in our reflections on our own history, but i really look forward to the day when one can be presented by an “exotic artwork” in a contemporary exhibition, free of such a basic curatorial theme; and instead being given the freedom to look at it in the specific way the work asks for, and not as a “colonized art piece”.
This might be an utopian wish, as contemporary art as we know it in the west is anyway a western concept. And then i come back to my initial question; is the way we perceive art here in the west, the best way? Is art better here in the west because we are trained in reflecting in a somewhat logic way? Is art more needed here because we do not have much space for nature and emotions in our daily life, except of through art? Is art better in the cold countries?

Question on Monday 31st of May. By Philip Tonda.

Question on May 24th. By Philip Tonda.

By Philip Tonda, Monday May 10th 2010

To what extend do we need to put words on works of art?
While we talk and write about art, and relate it to themes in society, do we sometimes forget to give attention to art as something that has its own agency in a free-standing, emotional way? Should art speak for itself about what words can not express? Shall we threat art as a medium for research and communication related to society, or is there also a strength in avoiding that (In the sense that we then might discover something we had no idea about before) ?

Question on Monday May 3rd. By Philip Tonda.

WHAT MAKES SOMETHING ART, AND WHAT MAKES IT A COMMERCIAL FORM OF ART?

Question on Monday 26th of April by
Jasmine Soori-Arachi.

Is it the context? The marketing? The hype? If art isn’t viewed in a gallery but on an old wall in the city, does that make it less art, less valuable because less collectible?

IS GOOD CURATING NECESSARY?By Philip Tonda on Monday April 19th.

While curating has developed towards being a self standing discipline, the curator and the artists are of course both dependent on each other. But while there are more art works than exhibition opportunities available, the curator can be considered a person in power.
Is that a problem, and where is the limit between interesting curating and lack of freedom for the artists? As an example of lack of freedom, the theme of the exhibition could possibly overrule the real essence of the individual works. In addition political agendas as well as trends in curating might lead to artists modifying their work in a specific direction, or deal with issues that are trendy in order to exhibit.

Are good curators important in the first place, or should artists just promote and showcase their own work instead of being dependent on the curators?